Feb 1, 2017 Kraft deserves credit too of course, but here we have probably the GOAT coach and GOAT QB. If you had to decide who's more responsible for the Pats dominant run the last 15 years or so, who would you go with? I probably don't know enough about the history to really give a fair answer here, but off the top of my head I kinda feel like Bill's more resposible for the earlier years, while Brady is for the later years. But it wouldn't have been possible without both for sure. Keep in mind Brady also took less money a few times so the Pats could build better teams around him, that's a key factor too since you see guys like Rodgers and especially Luck struggle to go anywhere due to their teams not being able to afford good help around them. Anyways I'm on my phone and will probably type out more later but wanted to see what people thought.
Feb 1, 2017 belichick if you've seen rodgers and brady play a substantial amount of games, it's pretty obvious that neither one of them is a lot better than the other. so if you're saying brady is much better in terms of greatness (which i'm not, but others have lol)---your reasoning is obviously because of superbowls the patriots have the number 1 ranked defense this season. the superbowl is between the number 1 ranked defense versus the number 1 ranked offense at least 2 (maybe 3) of the years the pats won the superbowl in the past, they had a top notch defense. brady is obviously great, but the reason the patriots have been so great over the years is because they've had the complete package.
Feb 1, 2017 Belicheck. Probably the smartest football mind of all time and one of the absolute best guys when it comes to team building for purpose and having your combined parts do their jobs to better the whole. He's consistently won championships without star players (although that can easily support Brady) The big picture is Brady isn't the most talented QB, but he's probably the hardest working. That's why he's been so good under coach Belicheck. Bill is the mastermind, though.
Feb 1, 2017 Pretty close to an equal marriage. Before Brady's first start Belichick had lost 23 of his last 33 with Cleveland and NE combined and was 5-13 with Drew Bledsoe. Pats went on to finish that year 14-3 and were 57-14 total with 3 SB rings with Brady over the next 4 years. If Bledsoe never gets hurt, they probably don't make the playoffs and Bill could have been out the door. Guys had a little more of a leash back then, but if he goes 5-11 and then somewhere between 6-10 & 8-8 with a (QB who had the largest contract in the history of the league), that gets you fired nowadays especially in your 2nd stint as a head coach. I think both probably win a couple Superbowls without each other, but together they are the best duo in league history.
Feb 1, 2017 Belichek It certainly helps having one of the best qb's of all time but no one is better at getting people to buy into a system like Belichek has. Not many superstar players have played for Belichek but he always gets the best out of his players.
Feb 2, 2017 Belichick, but his system only started working when Brady took over. We were legit trash before Brady. Once he had a great QB, it was over. I think it's funny when Patriot fans want to give more credit to Brady though. Like, Brady's gonna retire soon... You'd better hope it was more Bill than Brady lol. Brady is still the greatest ever though. He's done it with every type of offensive scheme, every type of weapon. He's made it to the Super Bowl with the worst defense ever, and almost pulled it off. And people don't realize how f---ing good he makes his offensive line look. GOAT.
Feb 2, 2017 Having a great defense helped, but like I've said in previous threads, the Patriots didn't have this shut down defense like the Seahawks or Ravens. They played great, were opportunistic, but Brady bailed them out a ton. If we had another QB in there, I don't think we win 3 Super Bowls in the early years. When the defense broke, Brady bailed them out, constantly. In his first 3 years (including 2002), he was so ridiculously clutch. As fans, we always felt we had a chance, no matter what happened, because we had Tom Brady. One of the most overlooked games ever is the 2002 Bears game. We were losing by, I believe 3 scores, and Brady brought us back and we won. It was a crazy game. In the earlier years, Brady really didn't have any weapons to stretch the field. He HAD to be crazy accurate. The only deep threat we really had was Bethel Johnson, and I can only remember one deep play that he had, and it was against the Seahawks in 2004 lol.
Feb 2, 2017 ^Bethel great kick returner, mediocre receiver. Pretty sure Brady threw a bomb to him in that frigid Titans playoff game in 03 though.
Feb 2, 2017 Dude was so ridiculously fast, but he had no f---ing hands. Was so frustrating seeing him wide open and the ball hitting his hands and incomplete.
Feb 2, 2017 I heard Cleveland Browns are really interested in Jimmy G. I still don't want them to deal him though.
Feb 2, 2017 Brady is the GOAT but from what Bill has been able to do with people other than Tom (going 11-5 with Matt Cassel) I think Bill deserves a little more credit
Feb 2, 2017 They've both complimented each other. I'd say that without Brady, the patriots would still be a successful franchise. They'd probably still have a couple SB's within the past 10 years or so because of Belichick and his system--but they'd be no where near as dominant as they have been.
Feb 3, 2017 I understand when people use the 2008 season, and getting 11 wins in the NFL is a very tough thing to do, but that Patriots' schedule was so ridiculously easy. You had Seattle (4-12), Rams (2-14), Raiders (5-11) Chiefs (2-14) and a bunch of 7-9, 8-8 and 9-7 teams. By the way, they barely beat those s-----y teams lol. Every good team they played, they lost to, and pretty lopsided. I guess you could say the Arizona game was impressive, but Arizona barely competed once it started snowing. All the other playoff teams they played... They lost to Indy 18-15, San Diego 31-10, Miami 38-13 and Steelers 33-10. Cassell got sacked 47 f---ing times lol. Brady the previous year only got sacked 21 times, and in 2009, he got sacked 16. This is coming off of an 18-1 season, and a season where they had one of their toughest schedules ever, and dominated almost everyone they played. Look, I love Bill, and I think we'll be fine without Brady, but Brady puts us in another stratosphere. I'd go 60% Bill 40% Brady. I think Bill can scrap out wins against average or below average teams, but Brady is what puts us over the top. By the way, I believe Jimmy G has the same effect. I do not want the Pats to trade him.
Feb 3, 2017 Fair enough. I 100% agree with Jimmy G I think that he could potentially have something similar to Aaron Rogers where they sit the first 4 or 5 years of their career behind a Hall of Fame quarterback and all of the knowledge is trickled down. For all we know though is Birset might be even better
