Apr 5, 2020

In 2002? lol Nobody was washing Em at that time.

 

Apr 6, 2020

lol

 

Apr 9, 2020

I agree with your entire post but I just want to clarify that by no means did I say Eminem was not great in 2002. 2002 Eminem made by far the best music in my eyes. Just timeless stuff for the most part. Like I said earlier though as subtle as they may have been the cracks were starting to show.

In 2001 this was a throwaway freestyle


A little over a year later this was


Pre-2002 Eminem literally everything the man touched was Gold and there were no wasted words or bars. He killed every song and every feature. By the end of 2002 that had slowly started to change and in 2003 and obviously 2004 it was a real problem(though he still put out pretty incredible work like Lady, half of Encore)

But it makes sense. According to him the drug use got out of control filming 8 Mile which was late 01/Early 02. By late 02 the train had slowly but surely started to come off the tracks.

 

Apr 9, 2020

I've always gravitated towards Jay's verses. I mean this is one of the best verses I've heard in my entire life. By anybody. I thought that in 01 and I think that now.

I had to hustle, my back to the wall, ashy knuckles
Pockets filled with a lotta lint, not a cent
Gotta vent, lotta innocent lives lost on the project bench
What you hollerin'? Gotta pay rent, bring dollars in
By the bodega, iron under my coat
Feelin' braver, durag wrappin' my waves up, pockets full of hope
Do not step to me, I'm awkward, I box lefty
An orphan my pops left me and often my momma wasn't home
Could not stress to me, I wasn't grown
'Specially on nights I brought somethin' home to quiet the stomach rumblings
My demeanor, thirty years my senior
My childhood didn't mean much, only raisin' green up
Raisin' my fingers to critics, raisin' my head to the sky
Big, I did it, multi before I die
No lie, just know I chose my own fate
I drove by the fork in the road and went straight

Also, "Do you fools listen to music or skim through it?" is one of the most iconic lines in the history of rap.

Meanwhile, yeah Eminem introduced a new flow at the time and had a good first verse but in his final verse he was blabbering about nothing. I would argue the revisionist history came from Nas' line in Ether and people just kind of took that as gospel.


As far as the cracks in 02 I'd point to the Love Me bit that I posted on the last page, parts of Rap Game that I can't remember right now and then that Wanksta freestyle. Also, and people will disagree with this- but the Don't Push Me verse has a bit of that drugged out flow with some questionable lyrics. I've never been a fan of it. That leaked like the first week of 2003 IIRC.

 

Apr 8, 2020

IMO he released his best work in 2002 but yes the cracks in the foundation were really starting to show.

My noodle is c----a-doodle, my clock's cuckoo
I got screws loose, yeah, the whole kit and caboodle
I'm just brutal, it's no rumor, I'm numero uno
Assume it, there's no humor in it no more, you know
I'm rollin' with a swollen bowlin' ball in my bag
You need a f-- to come and tear a new hole in my a---

 

Apr 5, 2020

This is bs. Nas and Jay weren't doing anything together in 2002.


Had it happened though Jay would have cooked Eminem.

 

Apr 7, 2020

Prime EM and Prime HOV are both on the same level for me. Overall HOV was more consistent with his albums though, but no way 2002 EM(Sing for the Moment, Lose Youself, 8 Mile Road, Till I Collapse, etc) would have been washed in a cypher back then...

 

Apr 10, 2020

I stand corrected. I forgot all about the greatness that was Eminem losing to Ja Rule in 2003 and the timeless classic LEAVE DAT BOY ALONE in 04.

 

Apr 9, 2020

Em in 2002 was still a monster, there's no papering that at all in spite of some good observations made. I have no doubt he would stepped up to the plate considering he'd be highly motivated to cement his status all in the same arena with these 3 other exalted writers.

With that being said, there's no debating that Jay & Nas were at their zenith at the time. Hov backing out of this had simply to do with the fact he wanted nothing to do or even be near Nas.

h--- I still don't know who really had the better verses on Renegade. Hov's verses are so poignant and written to perfection, Eminem had that crazy flow and the self-awareness to his own vilified status made his last verse feel larger than life.

 

Apr 9, 2020

respectively i disagree here. I think it's one of his most cogent, playful verses ever. besides rattling off "how" he's such a renegade, it's him in real time debating various perceptions of him. if this were a college essay or w/e, the premise of the verse and maybe if not the song but this era of em is: "We as a people decide if Shady's as bad as they say he is/ Or is he the latter, a gateway to escape?" pretty compelling question. the whole song crescendos w this verse - jay sets the table but the song wouldnt be nearly as classic if this verse didnt deliver imo.

And again, taking a step back. the em portions were already done as you def know before jay got involved. so hes literally writing to match em as part of the 'lyrical exercise'. maybe you could suss out, ok jays just as fluid or ~maybe exceeds him on some technical or literacy level, i get that. personal preference - jays great. but thats not rly the point. this is eminem at his most unleashed as a media fixture, the devil on your shoulder persona. pure zeitgeist. i just dont see how it compares. to each their own ofc/

dont agree w ur verse ranking bc its all so close. but on the charisma level or maybe pop appeal i tip it to em slightly. good pts tho

 

Apr 9, 2020

I get where you’re coming from but if you wrote off every rapper who exaggerated their stories there’d be no one left to listen to. Nas invented the Escobar persona on It Was Written, Pusha T wasn’t the Scarface kingpin he embodies in his music, but they’re both still legends who deserve all the praise that they get.

 

Apr 8, 2020

Peak Hov got blasted by Nas

 

Apr 6, 2020

People overrate tf out of Em’s prime. Not that he wasn’t good, because he was, but let’s not act like he was dropping Blueprints.

Peak Hov is the best to ever do it

 

Apr 6, 2020

Nobody was cooking Em in that era.

 

Apr 5, 2020

Yeah don’t buy this for a second, no way Jay and Nas would ever have been in the same room at that time.

Jay would wash all of them now, let alone then.

 

Apr 10, 2020

The most drama in his life? Pistol whipping somebody?

But okay. Let's go by your logic. Drama = Great music to be made. In 2006 his best friend was murdered/murdered somebody, he got remarried and divorced and almost unintentionally killed himself because of drug addiction. With the exception of Deja Vu why had he been a shell of himself and downright awful the last 14 years?

 

Apr 8, 2020

Eminem was at the absolute height of his powers in 2001 and Jay still got him on Renegade.

But somehow in 2002 where there were already signs of Eminem falling off he's going to get Jay? L-o-f---ing-L

 

Apr 7, 2020

He was good in his prime, great even if you want to argue semantics, but the implication that no one was touching him at that point is absurd. He made some absolutely undeniable songs, but does he have a Supreme Clientele, or a Blueprint, or a Stillmatic? No.