Mar 22, 2016

oh, and yes

 

Mar 22, 2016

Thanks brother!

 

Mar 22, 2016

Thanks fam!

 

Mar 22, 2016

Momma lowkey one of Kendrick's best songs
This feelin' is unmatched
This feelin' is brought to you by adrenaline and good rap
Black Pendleton ball cap
I get excited every time it starts

 

Mar 22, 2016

west west west

 

Mar 22, 2016

Let me add this as to why critic success is important. It has a huge impact on if people are gonna be listening to the music years for now. I know everyone has listened to an album because it got good reviews, or checked out an artist/song because it got featured on some article "best of" list. i know I've googled best albums of the 90s and listened to stuff based off lists. That's gonna happen when people are listening to rap for the first time 5 years from now. That's part of critic success. If we relied on "well if i like it, that's all that matters" we'd all have fewer artists in our playlists. People with influence liking the music have the power to get more people to listen.

 

Mar 22, 2016

the third verse so emotional defo one of my favourites of tpab

 

Mar 22, 2016

The Line of Best Fit review. Has a 60 on Metacritic.
"Cole is the everyman rapper, the inoffensive counterpart to Kanye’s frightening, mechanical experimentalism, the stiff upper lip to Drake’s bleeding heart romanticism, the passive observer to Kendrick Lamar’s social commentator: forever earnest in his attempts to make a point, but forever falling slightly short of the mark when faced with the challenge of standing out from his contemporaries: not quite reaching the heights of those producing albums deemed ‘classic’, yet not in such dire straits as to be lumped in with the greying mass that makes up much mainstream hip hop."

"his infrequent references to racial tensions in the music industry (yes, there’s a dig Iggy Azealea’s, albeit one so mild as to barely register), which feel, in comparison to the forceful entreaty for change presented by the likes of Run The Jewels and Kendrick Lamar, like a beginner’s guide to hopping on an idealistic bandwagon: the easy way to feign depth."
These are quotes especially the second one are using comparisons to diminish Coles artist or prove why the album is not as good as something else so this is an actual example of reviews doing the opposite of what you said comparing a body of work to itself and nothing else.

You have changed the complete dynamic of this disccussion in to some sort of scenario where I'm being dramatic instead of just responding to my questions. I already said from the beginning that albums reviews can bring knowledge and perspective on an album so when you say they shouldn't necessarily change my opinion of an album I completely agree. The problem is that when you say reviews prove an album is better executed you're basically saying I'm not being objective and my opinion thus matter less which I don't agree.

I still don't understand how these reviews are objective. What examples do you have of a review applying their knowledge objectively. I still don't see how these music reviews are objective which was the whole point of my discussion. If it's an informed subjective opinion, I agree with you. But you can't prove that a reviewer can objectively determine the quality of an album because again what constitutes the execution of an album is subjective no matter how deep your knowledge of music. You have no sources from your cousin or anywhere lmao, while youve discredited my source and I've come up with points of subjectivity that destroy this notion that reviewers have such high standing objectivity. Are we gonna keep going round and round or are you gonna give me some specifics or examples?

 

Mar 22, 2016

I see what you're saying but just to be clear I don't listen to albums because of reviews. I've never in real life heard anyone say "yeah I gave this album a chance because if got good reviews." I at least get that end of the year lists have some minimal impact but in coma prison to movie reviews, music reviews have minimal impact. Movies flop because of bad reviews, albums don't flop because of bad reviews but solely because of bad public reception.

 

Mar 22, 2016

What do we as cole fans use an argument when tryna discuss cole amongst his peers? Sales? Kendrick and drake sell more. Critic reviews? Drake and Kendrick have much better critic acclaim. Grammys? Again kendrick and drake. We say we find cole more relatable. Being "relatable" is completely subjective. Whereas sales, critic acclaim, and Grammys are measurable and somewhat objective. The reason metacritic scores are reliable is cause they pool multiple professionally written reviews and give an average score. This pretty much eliminates bias and all that. Are there some absolutely terrible reviews? Yes, but there's also some pretty good ones. Cole fans the only ones that dismiss reviews entirely. Are reviews the end all deciding factor? No, but they're a part of the puzzle.

 

Mar 22, 2016

Last time I checked, FHD had higher first week sale than tpab which is struggling to go platinum. In addition, even though it came out way before them, it's outselling both IYRTITL and tpab, even with all the Grammy hype. I actually have reasons why I think FHD is better than tpab. I can list them all out if u want. Both of the albums have obvious flaws. What I don't want is someone using critics to explain why the other is better. Like, you guys can do better than that.

 

Mar 22, 2016

Again critic reviews here just a part of the puzzle. Tpab won 7 Grammys, and was #1 on like 30 end of the year lists. On top of that its the highest rated rap album of all time. Now, fhd is more enjoyable imo. But, using measurable s--- like review scores, Grammys, accolades u see that tpab is generally viewed as the better album. Again, I could care less bout this but when comparing artists u gotta look deeper than "I like it better"

 

Mar 22, 2016

But how are Grammys and reviews objective? They are also people's opinions. It's not like winning a championship. It's just someone's interpretation of how good art is. It's a compilation of subjective views. I don't need reviews to tell me that I think GKMC is better than FHD.

I have no problem with someone valuing Grammys or Reviews, but to me you're just saying other people's opinions matter more than yours and I don't believe that. Hip-hop only like the Grammys/reviews when they fit our narrative and dismiss them when they don't.

 

Mar 22, 2016

K thats fair. but i will say these aren't being completely unfair like you say. they are simply giving examples of other cases where the same objective was executed better. it's comparing apples to apples, therefore i call it fair. and also, hasn't this been a big criticism of cole even on here, that he never seems to delve deep enough into certain subjects but rather just scratches the surface?


one down.

first of all, I didn't change anything lol. I am literally reading what you're posting and that's how im perceiving it. I mean you actually asked me to define good music, a little bit of a dramatic request given that I never even remotely implied anybody could do that. second, pretty much the biggest point i've been trying to advocate is that your opinion is really all that's important. reviewers just offer a different (yes, i'll say it again) more musically informed perspective.


two.

siiiigh d--- it kold im trying to get some sleep so i can get up early for work and argue with n----s on jcn some more, but since you went thru the trouble i guess i'll bite. i mean i wouldnt wanna be rude or anything.

I looked up one of my favorite releases of last year, the freddie gibbs joint, on metacritc and clicked through the reviews.

from hip hop dx

from the guardian

Hard to deny that these writers are at least somewhat competent in music knowledge given their understanding and usage of music terms and theories (ie. song structure, minor-chord recognitions, comparisons to a quintet in a symphony, melodies, common endings in harmonies in the verses.)

seem like pretty unbiased, fairly objective and informed........opinions?

My point exactly, a lot of people wouldn't pick up on stuff like verses ending in similar harmonies, and that's fine they don't need to. they probably don't even care tbf. but that's where i think reviews can be not just some person's irrelevant opinion like you seem to believe they are, but a good resource with a competent person giving their informed views on pieces of music.


three and done. sorry jcn for flooding the forum with essays today lol

 

Mar 22, 2016

moral of all this is bas new project is objectively trash

 

Mar 23, 2016

Almost forgot, @KLD3816 happy B-day to you bruva

 

Mar 23, 2016

I could breakdown how this is still subjective and how interpretations of music theory are still affected by personal bias, but that's a conversation for another day. Good convo as always. I might disagree but can't hate on someone backing up their opinion with good points.

 

Mar 23, 2016

@El Ares won

@Kold i like how you refused to take your L after I gave you actual examples of what you asked for. very slick but im not having it i invented the "that's a conversation for another day" excuse

 

Mar 23, 2016

KTT but I posted on JCN a long a--- time ago before FHD dropped but barely posted because of school. I was Freddy Coleger on there.

 

Mar 23, 2016

i feel closer to u now doe, if i ever meet you irl i might give u a bro kiss on some no h--- but kinda h--- s---