Mar 22, 2016

Wish this was longer

 

Mar 22, 2016

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/2016/02/22/bob-ezrin-on-kanye-west/
"He didn’t open up new avenues of public discourse like NWA, or introduce the world to a new art form like Grandmaster Flash, or even meaningfully and memorably address social issues through his music like Marshall, Macklemore and Kendrick."

I mean this guy is a heavily respected music producer that worked with people like Pink Floyd and Kiss. Inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame. He probably knows more about music from a technical aspect than me, but would you value his opinion over mine over this issue. Probably not because like me you're a huge Kanye fan and think he's definitely had more of an impact than Macklemore and Kendrick. Although there are many critics opinions that I can learn from and gain something from, there are millions of critics who I believe are out of touch and therefore, I'll never admire their opinions over mine. You can pick and choose, but just fully believing on metacritic scores is pointless to me because there are many albums that have had massive impact with minimal critical acclaim.

Obviously objectivity must play a role. Like I've said before, If I made a track today, it would be objectively be worse than any Cole track. But when you're talking professional artists, all of this s--- is mostly subjective. Even if you are talking technical aspects, now you have to choose what technical aspects should be valued over the other. Is a technically better writer more of a storyteller or a wordsmith. Is better production jazz-based or more ambient? So that really begs a question how from a technical aspect do you decide how music is objectively better?

I don't see a way you can tbh. Don't get me wrong someone can say "I don't like the Life of Pablo because its disjointed" which in comparison to other Ye albums that would be an appropriately objective statement, then someone can say "It is but he meant in that way which adds to the aesthetic" and I would agree with that person. Thats the problem. Even when you make objective statements in music, they can be interpreted in completely different ways, positive or negative.

Music is art and its mostly subjective.

 

Mar 22, 2016

Cole's personal attorney fell off.
This s--- not holding up in court @Kold



We're talking about reputable, professional music critics here. You linked some dude's poverty wordpress blog where he sounds like hes addressing a personal vendetta. The fact that he's a producer doesnt mean much in terms of his credibility as a music critic. This isnt more than a rant, holds no weight. Lol i thought you were talking about a published article by an established critic, come on now.


As far as "choosing which technical aspects are valued over the other" no, this isnt how reviews work and I dont think anybody is saying this here. Reviews arent a concrete, set in stone way to measure how certain projects rank against others so you can create an imaginary ladder to determine what the best and worst projects ever are. Lol no its not that dramatic.

Reviews are simply an informed perspective on music to try to determine how well it accomplishes what it's trying to accomplish. Its reviewed (or at least should be reviewed) against itself and nothing else.

Of course there's bad reviews and reviewers out there, especially in this day and age where everyone has a medium. But, again, this should take nothing away from established/professional reviewers and their reviews.

 

Mar 22, 2016

@ZaeDilla you from KTT or jcn?

 

Mar 22, 2016

@KLD3816 Happy birthday fam

 

Mar 22, 2016

@KLD3816 happy born day goat

 

Mar 22, 2016

Btw i think that hits your main issue with this @Kold

Just because kendricks tpab gets a 99 on meta and drakes nwts gets an 80, doesnt mean tpab is better than nwts. Just means kendrick executed tpab better than drake did nwts. Of course this isnt end all be all, just a few more-informed opinions than, probably, yours and mine.

 

Mar 22, 2016

I should really get to work doe smh

 

Mar 22, 2016

To all my JCN Ladies, I'm out here repping for you with the Wordpress game

 

Mar 22, 2016

I wonder the last time all these critics listened to tpab. Probable a month ago

Spoiler

Madd city still bangs till this day

 

Mar 22, 2016

First listen was in fact quite solid, I expected nothing from the album and got to listen to a few gems. Will definitely give it a 2nd spin.

Night Job is soooooooo smooth, wow. This is the type of tune you listen to 100 times until you get pissed off from the song lol

 

Mar 22, 2016

The beginning of this used to be my ringtone for about a half year

One of the first Cole songs I've bumped and never stopped loving

Underrated.

 

Mar 22, 2016

This is just wordpress blog thats just the first site referencing the article I can find. This is just one respected opinion on music but thats fine, if you don't care about their opinion thats fine. Its not necessarily a critic, but even though he was part of the creation of culturally rated albums but lets dismiss this for a second.

I'mma take a few lines of reviews of FutureSex/LoveSounds:
"Timberlake and Timbaland... write frustratingly awkward songs."
"FutureSex/LoveSounds isn't nearly as good as its slinky predecessor."
Of course there are also some good reviews but keep in mind this has a rating of 70
Get Rich or Die Tryin has a metacritic rating of 73.

By your logic those albums were not as well executed as Cole World: The Sideline Story (75), Nothing was the Same (79), or Oxymoron (78). Most people agree 50 and Justin albums are classically impactful records but thats not necessarily translated in reviews (inb4 you say the disparity between the ratings is not big enough lol). Thats my exact problem with the review process, people are just taking a compilation of reviews and using a number to determine the rating of a whole project when in reality its not always an effective measure of quality or an accurate reflection of the views of the people. Like I said, individual reviews that you find informative are fine. I could give a f--- about a metacritic and no I do not believe a metacritic rating means it was better executed. If it was better executed people can use their opinions to explain why. Not a calculate number of a bunch of peoples so called informed opinion. Again, you are not offering me an explanation for how you rank execution. How do you think a music reviewer determines that? Whats the objective rubric? And the fact that you think music is reviewed against itself and nothing else is funny to me considering I could name multiple reviews that compared Cole to Drake or Kendrick, or start off reviews by explaining what has been going on in a artist's life (which is completely understandable).

Again, when you are talking about reviews, in reality you are talking about music enthusiasts who sometimes have been listening to music for a long time. However some aren't always the most knowledgeable about music , they don't necessarily have much inside knowledge about how music is created, they are just good at explaining their interpretation of how they feel about the music. In other words, great describers who don't necessarily make the best or better music analysts. I have no problem with people who value reviews, but I will always take it with a grain of salt.

d--- this was super long. Good discussion as always though.

 

Mar 22, 2016

Thats why Big Quint is the GOAT reviewer. He listens as a music appreciator. Sometimes he likes s--- or doesn't and gives you his opinion about how he he likes a project with no extra BS. And when I don't agree with him I'm still entertained because he's hilarious.

 

Mar 22, 2016

@Kold you are 100% right. There are many flaws that tpab has that I could write an essay describing why it's not close to GKMC, but these people who depend on the opinion on the so called "knowledgable people" just have to throw out a metacritic number for why it's a very good album. Like FOH with that bs

 

Mar 22, 2016

One of my favorite Cole songs. It's simple, but it emanates very chill vibes

 

Mar 22, 2016

I will say this tho, momma was one of my favorite songs of 2015. Kendrick actually flexes his skills as a lyricist and the story telling is impeccable.

 

Mar 22, 2016

Hopefully we'll get him to do an AMA here soon, there's some work going on in the background.

 

Mar 22, 2016

lets do. for longer than a second if possible, cus it's irrelevant.

Ok you're being very deductive. admittedly, maybe I jumped the gun making the "better executed" argument but even then I emphasized the gray area. regardless your hyper deductive reasoning doesn't work here. That's my fault for bringing up the scoring system though because to be honest the scoring system is really just a super over simplified summary of the review (I actually have as much of a problem with that as you do). That 73 really doesn't say anything about GRODT, what does say a lot about it is the dozens of reviews that that number was taken from. I bet if you read those dozens of reviews you'd at least get some different perspectives on the album. Whether that affects your view of it or not is not important.

There's no rubric and I never implied there was. Obviously it depends on the piece of music at hand. I don't really see how much clearer I can make this, than I've already done. Lol you're seriously asking me "what's good music?" knowing there's no way I can give you a straight answer but implying I suggested I (or anybody) could. You're simply dramatizing my comments to help strengthen your point.

Sure if you'd like. I'd love to see what your cousin cooked up on wordpress. i'm sure the comparison isnt as impertinent as your implying it is.

Idk if you're just intentionally taking the extreme opposite stance on what I'm saying but seem to be undermining what reviewers do tbh. Like I said above and I've said a few times already, it's a more informed perspective that should at least hold some weight. That weight doesn't have to influence how you feel about the music (nor is it meant to), just give you another perspective on it.

 

Mar 22, 2016

hopefully you're not implicating me in this lol

That's why I retracted me bringing up scores because that wasn't what I was advocating in the first place