Dec 18, 2015

Not smart enough to argue otherwise?

 

Dec 18, 2015

It's not apples to oranges. All of these groups are minority groups. I agree there is a tiny percent of muslims carrying out violence. That's the point of my post. The majority of muslims aren't violent, so arguing that there are so many muslims teetering on the edge of radicalization, and all it takes is some American rednecks to push them to become terrorists is pretty lowly.

 

Dec 18, 2015

Yes, they're minority groups but do you know of a black organization that's justifying/promoting violence in the name of blacks? Or a gay organization that's justifying/promoting violence in the name of gays? Now, I'm sure you could find some no name anarchist organization in a quick Google search, that would answer my question but my point is, when we talk about self-proclaimed radical Muslims, it's on a much larger scale. We're talking about some of the biggest terrorist cells in the world right now. So when you say "oh, we don't apply this logic to blacks or gays. We don't expect blacks or gays to be radicalized when they're discriminated against." That's because there's currently no prominent black/gay organization(s) looking to radicalize people and promote violence lol.

 

Dec 18, 2015

of course perry thinks all groups that aren't straight white men are the same

 

Dec 18, 2015

Well than that brings up the fairly obvious question, why is it that out of all the minority groups the West has actively discriminated against, the only large-scale violent groups that have risen in retaliation have been Muslim ones?

 

Dec 18, 2015

Ever heard of columbine? Muslims are no different to westerns in making decisions to k--- people for their beliefs, the terrorist paranoia needs to stop, more people die from alcohol each year than terrorists but i dont see anyone trying to stop beer imports

Cis scum
Tumblr 4 lyf

 

Dec 18, 2015

I will say I think this blanketed "we need to distinguish between good, hard working earnest mainstream Muslims... and those brutal animalistic MFers" does a disservice to everyone in involved. As I've tried conveying here before, the issue to me is assimilation, globally speaking but specifically here in the US. The fact is, there are elements in the Muslim community that foster resentment toward the US/the western world -- right now it's mere discontent, sure, but I think that's the kindling that eventually leads to radicalization. So we need an honest dialogue with Muslim Americans about what's happening, and how these resentments build and manifest.

Of course, historically the US does a horrible job of engaging fringe groups, COINTELPRO, brutalizing the Black Panthers, etc. But until there's a better dialogue besides this binary, rosy PC horseshit, we're going to be spinning our wheels.

 

Dec 18, 2015

How can such a dialogue even happen when one party says f--- Islam and the other party says everything is totally fine?

 

Dec 18, 2015

People get the wrong idea about 'animalistic' muslims as if they're horrible people, but the thing is they've been raised in a low economy country all their life being told and drilled into their head that we're evil and that we don't understand their struggle, cutting them off will just fuel the fire for more terrorists and mass murderers, the problem is their religious leaders spreading the wrong ideals among the religion, not the people themselves, most of them are just victims of their environment, the muslim religion in it's purist form is actually a very peaceful one if you study it....

 

Dec 18, 2015

Perry, you're asking trick questions. Certainly African-Americans have fought for their rights in this country and in some instances used violence but that's not what this is about. This is why I said this comparison is apples and oranges. These self-proclaimed Muslim terrorist cells didn't spawn/form because Muslims in the United States are being discriminated against. They have a completely different agenda/goal in mind. I'm just confused here... Do you not think Muslims who come into the United States are more prone to radicalization than other minority groups already here?

 

Dec 18, 2015

No I'm not saying any of that, and now you're talking out of both sides of your mouth (no offense). You say discrimination only leads to radicalization for Muslims because there are Muslim terror networks. Then when I ask why are there only Muslim terror networks, you say there are violent black groups that exist. You can't have it both ways. my original point is that discrimination doesn't turn people violent. Numerous minority groups have been treated f---ing horribly. Treated worse than Muslim Americas in the articles posted in the OP. Members of those minority groups however have not turned to mass violence on a global scale, and to pretend like I said that Muslims can be so easily radicalized is a little offensive.

It wasn't a trick question at all.

 

Dec 18, 2015

Jesus Christ..... Yes Perry, there were violent black organizations back in the 60's like the Black Panthers for example. I wasn't speaking currently. So you don't believe Muslim refugees that come to the United States are more prone to radicalization compared to other minority groups already here? I don't even know what you're arguing at this point. You're trying to flip my words around and it's not working lol.

 

Dec 18, 2015

This is pretty much sums up this entire discussion. Like.....what? Lol

 

Dec 18, 2015

No I don't think refugees would be more prone. Not at all. These people are refugees because ISIS burned their homes down and murdered their family members. I doubt their itching to join.

 

Dec 18, 2015

Then I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I think refugees, especially the children refugees are more prone to radicalization than other minority groups. They don't fully grasp what's happening and to be discriminated here opens the door to ISIS and other radical groups to influence them. Not saying this is going to happen to every Syrian refugee who's discriminated but it's a possibility.

 

Dec 18, 2015

Well ok, but I believe you're factually wrong here. Second generation immigrants, and even refugees, are more moderate. That can be seen across every Western country where immigration from the Middle East has happened.

And to your point about violent pro-black groups in the 60s is the true apples to oranges comparison. None of the groups that were able to recruit promoted bombing buildings or going on mass shooting sprees. And black people in America were much more disenfranchised then Muslims today.

 

Dec 18, 2015

That may be true but the political climate of the U.S. isn't exactly the best for Muslim refugees at the moment. Especially not with people like Trump getting the attention he's getting. I mean we have armed men in Texas waiting outside mosques with assault rifles. Threats, vandalism and harassment of mosques in the U.S. have tripled this year compared to last year. That's bound to make Muslim refugees (again I emphasize on the children) feel some type of way. I'm not saying all or most or half or even a quarter will be radicalized but it's a possiblity. I don't know how you can factually prove that's not a possibility.

 

Dec 19, 2015

Yes, it will for sure make Muslims "feel some type of way". Probably foster anti-Americanism. But there's a difference between hating the US/ politicians and actually picking up a weapon and murdering innocent people.

 

Dec 19, 2015

Fair enough.

 

Dec 19, 2015

I am Muslim myself, and to say, radicalists right now are more dangerous to countries filled with Muslims than to western countries. Islam radicalisms is indeed a problem. Whether it's ISIS or not. And the main problem lies within the Muslims themselves. We cannot provide proper view on Islam. There are tons of mosques in my area that teach wrong views. Of course non educated people who are to come there for first time will get the wrong understanding. These mosques need to be closed, some of radicals need to be imprisoned or killed. But it will have a big backlash. So government is scared. We had more than a 1000 people fly to Syria to fight for ISIS, and it is so d--- stupid. Radicalism is like a virus. Those same people like 5 years ago would never think of joining any radicalists group. We lived through 2 revolutions and a civil war without any really big harm for our country. And to say it, it is an achievement. Lately any country that goes through a revolution just won't ever get out of it. Ukraine, Syria, Lebanon, etc etc. I don't think we will survive any religious based revolution tho.